Today’s link is an episode of Bari Weiss’ podcast “Honestly.” The episode itself is of course worth listening to, but the circumstances surrounding it are equally remarkable. Earlier this year, Weiss had writer Freddie deBoer on to discuss mental health. deBoer suffers from bipolar disorder and has very strong and informed opinions on psychiatric treatment. In the course of their conversation, Weiss and deBoer criticized a New York Times article written by Daniel Bergner in which Bergner explored acceptance of psychiatric illness as a possible alternative to more conventional treatments. Bergner reached out to Weiss, disappointed by his piece’s portrayal on the show, and so she invited him on to present his views.

As the episode’s title (“A Better Way to Disagree”) implies, Weiss and Bergner’s conversation isn’t solely about opposing views of mental health treatment. It’s also a very civil and honest discussion between two people who passionately disagree on a topic. Though this is Weiss’ show, she doesn’t stack the deck in her favor like so many TV and podcast hosts choose to do. She doesn’t shout Bergner down, she doesn’t insert clips in post to dispute his claims. She wants to understand his position better. And though she still disagrees with him at the end, it doesn’t mean the conversation wasn’t worthwhile.

A final thought on today’s link. On his excellent Substack yesterday, Freddie deBoer posted a link promoting Weiss and Bergner’s conversation. It would have been a prime opportunity for deBoer to get the last word in… and he very graciously doesn’t take it. As he explains, “Bergner deserves his opportunity to stick up for himself and his essay.” Who says chivalry and civil political discourse are dead?